No Thanks, Man On the Making Of "Inside Out There"
What was the creative process like for this particular "Inside Out There?"
This song first revealed itself to me as the melody and lyrics of the chorus. I like to sing at night and just let it flow — whatever comes out, comes out. One night, I just sang the chorus in full and I found it kind of catchy so I kept on singing it, not sure what else was to come.
At the time, I was experimenting with metal drums in the mornings, the part of the day when I like to play music freely with no real intention. The richness of sound was very deep, and I couldn't get enough of these metal drums.
The overtones were sort of dictating where to go and as the music started to take shape, I discovered that the chorus I had been singing at night time fit perfectly over what I had been playing in the morning…which is why the heart and soul of this song is really in the metal drums.
Have you noticed any particular interpretations or connections that listeners have made with "Inside Out There?"
I've been surprised by how many people find this song relaxing or calming because to me it will always be a little sad - this woman, stuck trying to break free, trying to be seen… but then I realized that there is an inherent calm that comes when you accept the isolation, even if it's an acquiescence of sorts.
One person even found it to be tropical, which ironically enough is where I was longing to go. When listeners share their experiences, you realize how all the details and complexities that were hanging in the background inevitably shine through.
So to me, it might be sad thinking back, staring out the window in the cold, harsh winter, and wanting more for my life… but I realized there was also a sense of calm that went along with that isolation...and the calm that was necessary to eventually make the right changes in my life.
What has been one of your favorite memories along the path to making this track?
During the mixing phase, I got really into spatial imaging, and I had been telling me a friend of mine about it who is a percussionist from Brasil and a staple in the Washington DC music scene. I was geeking out over the whole idea of putting instruments in certain places, so that it would create a soundscape and create dynamics beyond just what was written on the page.
So one night I finally had the opportunity to play an early mix for him and I decided to get out my good headphones and pressed play on “Inside Out There”. I couldn't hear anything of course but I saw in his face the different parts of the song, and after it was over, he looked at me with eyes wide open and just said “More, more. How can I hear more?” It meant a lot to have his respect and I knew at that point I was definitely on the right track. So I really dug into that concept while I produced the final version.
Can you share a bit about your musical background and the journey that led you to where you are today?
While studying music theory and composition in college, I had the opportunity to play many percussion instruments, but I especially loved the marimba. I was so taken by the sound I would play for hours…there was just a special love, a special reverberation I felt from the instrument.
Although I always loved the marimba and that never left me, I don't think No Thanks, Man would exist today if it weren't for my work as a lead sound engineer at the Percussive Arts Society International Convention (PASIC). Experiencing world percussion again, I deepened my understanding of how percussive overtones can create a feeling otherwise lost with standard instruments.
By working so closely with percussion ensembles, I also began to understand the spatial imaging they used on stage to create more complex arrangements, as well as the emphasis on dynamics. The mix was always very important to the performance because of how much effort was spent creating the right dynamic and careful attention to the staging and spatial image — it is almost something sacred within every piece.
I just felt like I had a unique perspective with all of these different influences and my music exists because of the rich musical tapestry I was exposed to and my underlying love of a well-written pop song.
How do you balance crafting relatable stories with maintaining your unique voice as a songwriter?
I think of my songs as experiences as opposed to stories. I feel that as long as I stay true to that experience, and to the song itself, then there's a natural balance between creating something relatable and maintaining my unique voice.
At the core of it, we are all quietly suffering in our own way, and through compassion and love, we are able to find a little bit of joy to share with each other… We really are all one, so it is in being true to your unique voice that you actually create something relatable.
